How big is a box room
How big is a box room?
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32 replies
Sheilaroundthefountain · 08/02/2022 14:52
We are thinking of splitting a big bedroom into two. I’ve seen posts on here about box rooms, and I’m just wondering if we’d be taking a good sized room and ruining it. Doors to both rooms would be fire doors
Sorry the plan is such bad quality.
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Sheilaroundthefountain · 08/02/2022 14:53
I don’t think the photo is adding. Sorry
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TenThousandSpoons · 08/02/2022 14:54
A box room fits a single bed in and not much else.
A small chest of drawers maybe.
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Sheilaroundthefountain · 08/02/2022 14:55
Don’t know why I couldn’t add it, but it doesn’t really matter. I just want to know what size is considered a box room
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TeenPlusCat · 08/02/2022 14:56
Depends why you are doing it as to whether it's a good idea or not.
Remember it can always be 'undone' by future owners.
I'd say a box room is any room that can't fit a single bed and chest of drawers - ie too small for a bedroom so only good for boxes.
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ItsRainingTacos · 08/02/2022 14:58
It should be able to fit a single bed. If not then it's more a cupboard.
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Sheilaroundthefountain · 08/02/2022 14:59
Neighbours have find it and I’m looking at their photos on rightmove.
They have single beds in my look fairly spacious
The room dimensions would be approx 10x10 and 12x10, but not perfect squares/rectangles because of eaves and window alcoves
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NotRainingToday · 08/02/2022 15:00
If both dimensions are less than 6 feet, definitely a box room.
One dimension > 6 feet would be a small bedroom.
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Sheilaroundthefountain · 08/02/2022 15:00
We’d be going it to have a study. My husband works from home sometimes and has taken over the kitchen. I thought it might make our house more attractive to have an extra bedroom/study
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Sheilaroundthefountain · 08/02/2022 15:01
Doing it I mean
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MouseyMoose · 08/02/2022 15:04
I think our 4th bedroom would be classed as a box room and it is 2.
5m x 3m.
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MouseyMoose · 08/02/2022 15:05
Should have said, and in there we have a single bed, set of drawers and a small wardrobe.
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BogRollBOGOF · 08/02/2022 15:09
DS's bedroom literally fits a bed (no frame), a modest wardrobe and could squeeze in a small bedside unit.
It is only just big enough to be a single bedroom.
A box room, I'd say is not big enough for a single bed but could be used as a nursery with smaller furniture such as a cot.
DS likes his small room and finds it cosy and easy to organise. We had to construct a mid-rise sleeper which overhangs the window as there was no space to assemble a standard cabin bed frame, and any other bed would have obstructed the radiator.
It works much better for him than sharing.
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Ohshitiveturnedintomymother · 08/02/2022 15:12
Two of my bedrooms are approx 10x10 and 12x10 and I wouldn’t call them box rooms! They fit a double bed and other furniture in fine.
I thought a box room was one with the ‘box’ over the stairs? Like you see in 1960s Gough Cooper developments.
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gamerchick · 08/02/2022 15:15
My box room is a single bed and a small chest of drawers. Definitely no room for anything else and the bed only fits in one way.
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TeenPlusCat · 08/02/2022 15:16
I'd do whatever works for you now as a family.
It wouldn't be hard for a future owner to undo if they had a mind to.
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Ohshitiveturnedintomymother · 08/02/2022 15:17
But mine are both rectangles with no alcoves/sloping ceilings so are probably bigger than yours would be. It’s amazing how much you can get into a room
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BekoMoooover · 08/02/2022 15:19
libcom.
org/blog/how-combat-bedroom-tax-tape-measure-20022013
Does that help at all? I know it’s not a great kink but if you read it a follow some of the other links it might get you what you need.
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JaninaDuszejko · 08/02/2022 15:23
I thought a box room was one with the ‘box’ over the stairs? Like you see in 1960s Gough Cooper developments.
No, a boxroom was where you stored boxes.
My parents had a box room that was used as a linen cupboard in their time, it had a small dormer window. As a child I thought it was quite magical and would have loved it to be my bedroom (my actual bedroom was much bigger).
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Sheilaroundthefountain · 08/02/2022 15:32
@Ohshitiveturnedintomymother
Two of my bedrooms are approx 10x10 and 12x10 and I wouldn’t call them box rooms! They fit a double bed and other furniture in fine.
I thought a box room was one with the ‘box’ over the stairs? Like you see in 1960s Gough Cooper developments.
My friend had that in her bedroom when we were growing up. I had no storage in my room so was very very jealous of her huge cupboard she could crawl into!
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Zilla1 · 08/02/2022 15:33
Boxroom becomes a bedroom if it can fit a bed and furniture and function as a bedroom.
If not them it becomes an office or boxroom.
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Sheilaroundthefountain · 08/02/2022 15:34
@BekoMoooover
libcom.org/blog/how-combat-bedroom-tax-tape-measure-20022013
Does that help at all? I know it’s not a great kink but if you read it a follow some of the other links it might get you what you need.
That links brilliant Beko. I’ve saved it to refer back to
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SkipThisStep · 08/02/2022 15:35
@Ohshitiveturnedintomymother
Two of my bedrooms are approx 10x10 and 12x10 and I wouldn’t call them box rooms! They fit a double bed and other furniture in fine.
I thought a box room was one with the ‘box’ over the stairs? Like you see in 1960s Gough Cooper developments.
Yes that is what a 'real' box room is but the meaning has evolved to also mean a small room. Our box room is 5.8 Square metres.
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DuesToTheDirt · 08/02/2022 15:37
I thought a box room was one without a window to the outside? Size irrelevant.
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Masdintle · 08/02/2022 15:49
I was just going to come on here and say - it's a room without a window to the outside. Can't be called a bedroom even if it's big enough for a super king size bed.
The link posted above is interesting on what size constitutes a big enough room to be classed as a bedroom. I lived in a flat in which the bedroom was 9'6" x 6'9" and it was ridiculous to do anything but sleep in.
I used to get dressed in the kitchen.
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What is a bedroom – There is a minimum size and specification…from the coalition – SPeye Joe (Welfarewrites)
This coalition government DO have a minimum room size and minimum room width and a detailed specification of what constitutes a bedroom and below is a game changer in the bedroom tax and especially in appealing this ill-conceived policy.
In the bedroom tax everything hinges on the term ‘bedroom’ as Housing Benefit is only reduced (the ‘bedroom tax’) if you have a spare bedroom. Nothing is deducted for a spare toilet or any other spare room, it is only on a spare bedroom, however defined.
Until now it has been believed there is no definition of the term bedroom and the DWP infamously issued the U6 HB circular in September 2013 to say a bedroom is merely a room that can accommodate a single bed.
Yet in August 2013 this coalition government put out a highly detailed definition of what is a single bedroom, a twin bedroom and a double bedroom. A single bedroom the government say measures at least 75.55 square feet in floor space and includes:
- A bed
- A wardrobe
- A chest of drawers
- A bedside cabinet
- A table and chair
And with access space in between the above so the bed can be made and the wardrobe can be accessed and also further activity space for which they give the example of room to get dried after a bath or shower and room in which to get dressed.
This is a game changer for the bedroom tax appeals. The government cannot hide behind IDS’s nonsense and for me legal fiction that a bedroom is merely a room that can fit in a single bed and nothing more.
I am urging every bedroom tax affected household to ask their local council to review all of the 481,000 decisions in which a room is deemed to be a bedroom when it is less than this 75.35 square feet and / or is not of a size to accommodate all of the above items of normal bedroom furniture. If your council does not revise its decision then I am urging all to formally appeal to a Tribunal on the ground that the disputed room is not a bedroom as it fails to meet the government’s own definition of a bedroom.
What does the Government’s definition say?
Fig 1 – The Requirement
Note well point 1.3 above which says that ALL bedrooms should provide a minimum area and minimum width.
Figure 2 – The Minimum size and width
The minimum size in floor space of a SINGLE bedroom is 7.
0 square metres or 75.35 square feet and the room must have a minimum width of 2.15 metres or 7 feet 1 inch.
A DOUBLE bedroom (or twin) needs to be 11 square metres or 118.41 square feet with a minimum width of 2.55 metres or 8 feet 5 inches.
Yet the government, this coalition government go much more detailed into what a bedroom is and needs to include and the above dimensions are minimums and assume a regular shaped room. A bedroom needs to include typical items of bedroom furniture that a fair minded observer – the legal doctrine of the man on the Clapham omnibus – would include and say are reasonable in a single, twin or double bedroom
Figure 3 – What a bedroom must include according to Government
The above is in list form but you can see a SINGLE bedroom has to have a bed, a wardrobe, a chest of drawers etc all of which have a typical size for a room to be deemed a bedroom according to this coalition government. This is a government definition of bedroom lets not forget
The government also says there is a need for typical access and activity space in a bedroom
Figure 4 – Bedroom Furniture Schedule
Comment
Everything hinges upon the definition of a bedroom in the bedroom tax and one of my earliest arguments back in January 2012 was how can you tax something you refuse to define? Yet we have a government definition of what constitutes a bedroom and a definition which is the government’s position on what is a bedroom has been since at least at least August 2013 when they released it.
The DWP said in the bizarre U6 HB Circular of September 2013 that a bedroom is a room that can fit a single bed in it, just that and nothing more. That has always been a nonsense and legal fiction yet some tribunal judges have ruled that way citing the absence of a definition of bedroom and going along with the knee jerk view the DWP expressed in the U6 of September 2013.
The DWP has also argued in seeking permission from the Upper Tribunal to appeal decisions it has lost that any room which is capable of being a bedroom is a bedroom and citing this U6 circular. Yet the above is the coalition’s own definition of what a room needs to be to be capable of being deemed a (single) bedroom which it says is so much more than a room that can fit a single bed in it!
Where is this government definition to be found?
It is the “Housing Standards Review” from the Department of Communities and Local Government or CLG which is the government department that looks after housing.
In August 2013 they issued a consultation paper and with that part 2 was called “Illustrative Technical Standards” which contains all the drawings used here.
The Housing Standards Review is an attempt to set a national standard of minimum housing size and quite cynically some say it reduces the overall size of new properties. However, that is another issue for another day notwithstanding that we have the smallest house sizes in Europe. The real issue is that we do have a coalition government definition of bedroom and that is hugely significant.
The DWP cannot argue that the term bedroom’ is merely a room in which merely a single bed fits and nothing else. They cannot state this is the government position because another government department and the one which is responsible for housing in CLG says a very different thing.
Some of the naysayers we chirp up that this is not a definition in legislation or regulations. They are right it is not; yet the purpose of the Tribunal is to find fact in the absence of a definition in regulation or legislation and Tribunal judges rightly adopt a position of what would a reasonable fair minded person say is a bedroom – the legal doctrine of the man on the Clapham omnibus.
The phrase ‘man on the Clapham omnibus’ was reviewed by the UK Supreme Court in the case of Healthcare at Home Limited v. The Common Services Agency [2014] UKSC
“The Clapham omnibus has many passengers. The most venerable is the reasonable man, who was born during the reign of Victoria but remains in vigorous health. Amongst the other passengers are the right-thinking members of society, familiar from the law of defamation, the officious bystander, the reasonable parent, the reasonable landlord, and the fair-minded and informed observer, all of whom have had season tickets for many years”
Would the man on the Clapham omnibus, or a fair minded member of the public if you will, say a single bedroom for everyday use is a room with a bed a chest of drawers, a wardrobe and space to make the bed and to get dressed reasonable? Yes he would.
This, in short, and there are many other arguments, is why this is a game changer. It matters little that this definition is found in a document that aims to reduce overall property sizes or does it matter that it is not a definition found in legislation or regulations; we have a government definition and a highly detailed definition of the central question in the bedroom tax policy of what is a bedroom.
It is not an unreasonable definition and accords with what a reasonable person would say a bedroom is and constitutes and it comes from the same government that IDS is a part of.
It cannot hold that any Tribunal can accord with the narrow IDS view of a bedroom being a room with just a single bed in it and not can any local authority administering the scheme too. Of course LAs will not change as it costs them too much to make a proper and legally reliable bedroom tax decision and it will only be the Tribunals which do give a legally reliable decision so the bedroom tax affected household will have to go to Tribunal to get one. That will cost central government a fortune and if it does then that is its own and the First Tier Tribunals with their remit and purpose of fact finding are going to be very busy.
UPDATE 16:00 hours
Some have argued, and wrongly, that this government definition above is just a proposed future issue that only applies to new build, and as such has no relevance.
Here I discuss in some detail why that view is fundamentally wrong and Tribunals will have to consider all of the above.
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Equipping a pantry: 18 illustrative examples
Almost every, even a small apartment, has a small room, which people are used to calling a pantry. Usually unnecessary things are put into it, but in fact this small space can be very useful and functional.
If desired, it can be converted into a complete laundry room or dressing room. We have found many examples, after which there is a desire to re-equip the pantry.
Laundry room
Laundry room in the pantry
In a small apartment there are not many places where you can put a washing machine. Often it takes up usable space in the kitchen or bathroom. It is the pantry that will help unload these rooms. The main thing is that it is located near the bathroom or kitchen, so that it is convenient to organize the collection and drainage of water.
Not superfluous here will be additional shelves for powders and conditioners.
Laundry can be equipped even in a small pantry
Practical use of the pantry
Pure linen and towels
Storage of linen and towels
The pantry and towels will also be useful for storing clean linen and towels, especially if the apartment is limited in the apartment with the number of storage systems. . Additional helpers will be plastic containers, cardboard boxes, wicker baskets. For convenience, they can be signed. The doors are also worth using, attaching towel rails to them. nine0003
Storage in a pantry
Storage of household chemicals and mops
Sometimes a vacuum cleaner or a mop in the corner of a room spoils the overall impression of the interior. You can hide them in a closet. For these purposes, it is better to make several convenient shelves in it, equip the walls with hooks so that it is convenient to hang brushes and mops on them.
Do not forget about the functional use of the door. You can fix several metal nets on it or hang an organizer with textile or polyethylene pockets. It is convenient to store gloves, soap, detergents and cleaning products, sponges in them. nine0003
Storage of household chemicals and mops in the pantry
Home office
A small utility room, with a skillful approach, can turn into a stylish and cozy office. True, when arranging such a home office, you will have to take care of good lighting. To store everything you need will come in handy: a place under the ceiling, open shelves, magnetic and cork boards, all kinds of office organizers.
Home office in pantry
Storage systems in a small home office
Pantry, converted to the home office
Small and neat workplace
A small room is great for the role of dressing room. When decorating it, you should focus on light colors, make several rows of open shelves (preferably under the ceiling), hang a mirror on the wall, equip the dressing room with additional lighting and do not forget about all kinds of boxes, hanger rods. nine0003
Wardrobe in the pantry
A small pantry room can become a stylish dressing room
Compact dressing room
Storage of children's toys and things
When a child appears in the family, then the need arises in the family additional storage systems. And the older the child becomes, the more acutely it is felt. When there is nowhere to put children's things, you should pay attention to the utility room, which is used irrationally. It is worth freeing the pantry from unnecessary things, pasting it with beautiful wallpaper, equipping it with shelves and rods. Just a few steps, and it transforms into a cute dressing room for children's things and storage space for toys.
nine0003
Storage of children's books and toys
Wardrobe for children's things
Storage system for children's things
Most often the storehouse room. This small space will help unload the interior of the kitchen and perhaps even get rid of extra bulky furniture that prevents you from moving freely around the kitchen. For ease of storage, it is better to pour bulk cereals from bags into glass jars and sign them. Pickles are most conveniently stored on the lower shelves - it is cooler and darker there. nine0003
Pantry in the kitchen
Product storage in the pantry
Help, you need to solve all 4 tasks from the picture and how much interest the hallways are more than
No. 1.
Bathroom - 2
Entrance hall - 7
Loggia - 70148
Kitchen - 4.
No. 2. 5 m2
No. 3. 8
#4. 10.5 m2
№* by 40%
Step-by-step explanation:
A distinctive feature of the entrance hall is that at least 3 doors lead from it to different rooms (to the pantry, to the kitchen and to the bathroom). There is only one such room, it is marked with the number 7. So, No. 7 is the entrance hall.
The only door in the hallway that does not lead to other rooms, but goes outside the apartment, is located in the upper left corner of the hallway. Opposite this door, according to the condition, there is a bathroom. On the plan, the room opposite the door is indicated by the number 2. So No. 2 - bathroom.
To the left of the entrance, according to the condition, there is a pantry. On the plan there is a room marked with the number 5. So, No. 5 is a pantry.
To the right of the entrance, according to the condition, there is a kitchen.
On the plan to the right of the entrance room number 4. So No. 4 is the kitchen.
The condition states that the bedroom is larger than the kitchen. Both remaining rooms (numbered 3 and 1) satisfy this condition. But the condition also says that the living room has a glazed loggia. nine0147 Loggia - room No. 7 , since its entire right camp is made up of a window (see legend in the upper right corner of the plan). So room #1 is living room and room #3 is bedroom.
Using these data, Fill in the table:
BEOUSE - 2
Hall - 7
Lodge - 7 (Little Long Room; Yes, Two Tsivra 7)
Kultuva - 5
Kitchen - 4.
2.
First, let's find the area of one cell. Since on the plan the side of one cell is 0.5 m, the area of one cell is
0.5 m * 0.5 m = 0.25 m2.
Now let's calculate how many cells fit in the loggia.
There are 20 of them. So, the area of the loggia is
0.25 m2 * 20 = 5 m2.
3.
The size of a tile is 25 cm * 25 cm = 0.25 m * 0.25 m, which means that the area of one tile is 0.25 m * 0.25 m = 0.0625 m2. nine0003
There are 16 tiles in one package, which means that tiles from one package can cover an area equal to
0.0625 m2 * 16 = 1 m2
Now let's calculate the area of the bathroom. In total, there are 30 cells in the bathroom, each of which has an area of 0.25 m2 (see task 2). So, the area of the bathroom is
0.25 m2 * 30 = 7.5 m2.
Now we can find out how many packs of tiles are needed to lay out the bathroom floor. To do this, we divide the area of the bathroom by the area that can be covered with one package of tiles:
7.5 m2 / 1 m2 = 7.5 (packs).
Since you can't buy half a pack of tiles, you need 8 packs of tiles to cover the floor of the entire bathroom (7 packs is not enough, another half a square meter will remain unpaved).
